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	<title>Comments on: Our kids deserve better than Labour ministers using schools reorganisation as a political football</title>
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	<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html</link>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html/comment-page-1#comment-4457</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 22:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3584#comment-4457</guid>
		<description>As Councillor Berman&#039;s response outlines, the Liberal Democrats have been engaged in three different proposals in the Canton area since 2006 (these being (1) close Radnor, (2) close Lansdowne, and (3) &#039;save&#039; Lansdowne by reducing it to a one form entry school in a new build at Fitzalan. For (1), it was part of a city-wide plan voted down in council and was not ever returned to as a proposal. For (3), this was the Plaid coalition-inspired proposal that enjoyed very limited support from any side, officers did not recommend, and the executive rejected. And (2) is the one that the executive went for (despite it being contrary to their coalition statement) and recently had rejected by the Assembly. Even if local Labour representatives opposed every one, the executibe still had the power to decide which one to pursue to statutory consultation.

The reason why WLGA and ADEW are objecting is because this is one of the few council proposals that has been rejected and caused &#039;surprise&#039; because  it has not simply been approved. Councils do not get it right every time, and Cardiff Council failed to do so on this occasion. Yes, the proposal reduced surplus cases but at a cost to the quality of education offered. 

The WAG letter did not neglect transition arrangements at all. Until Cardiff might openly publish it responses to WAG, I cannot know what it proposed in terms of transitional arrangements. However, I do know what the council said in consultation exercises on this proposal. And that was that all Lansdowne pupils would be moved together to the Radnor site in September 2011. And your officers confirmed, as reported in the letter, that this would mean some 600 pupils (around 575 primary pupils, and 25 nursery pupils) being located in 2011 on the Radnor site.

I cannot agree more with Councillor Berman&#039;s final comment on the need for some creative thinking, but would argue that it is better to have it much earlier in the process when proposals are generated, rather than demand it in transitional stages of any proposal.

Finally, I would be interested to hear Councillor Berman&#039;s views on whether, as a Council, Cardiff has an obligation to keep all interested parents informed through formal channels of the ongoing debates and next steps being considered. Blogs by politicians, rather than via formal council mechanisms, seem to be the way to keep in touch on whether legal challenge is being proposed, or whether further community consultation events of uncertain formality and status are taking place...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Councillor Berman&#8217;s response outlines, the Liberal Democrats have been engaged in three different proposals in the Canton area since 2006 (these being (1) close Radnor, (2) close Lansdowne, and (3) &#8216;save&#8217; Lansdowne by reducing it to a one form entry school in a new build at Fitzalan. For (1), it was part of a city-wide plan voted down in council and was not ever returned to as a proposal. For (3), this was the Plaid coalition-inspired proposal that enjoyed very limited support from any side, officers did not recommend, and the executive rejected. And (2) is the one that the executive went for (despite it being contrary to their coalition statement) and recently had rejected by the Assembly. Even if local Labour representatives opposed every one, the executibe still had the power to decide which one to pursue to statutory consultation.</p>
<p>The reason why WLGA and ADEW are objecting is because this is one of the few council proposals that has been rejected and caused &#8216;surprise&#8217; because  it has not simply been approved. Councils do not get it right every time, and Cardiff Council failed to do so on this occasion. Yes, the proposal reduced surplus cases but at a cost to the quality of education offered. </p>
<p>The WAG letter did not neglect transition arrangements at all. Until Cardiff might openly publish it responses to WAG, I cannot know what it proposed in terms of transitional arrangements. However, I do know what the council said in consultation exercises on this proposal. And that was that all Lansdowne pupils would be moved together to the Radnor site in September 2011. And your officers confirmed, as reported in the letter, that this would mean some 600 pupils (around 575 primary pupils, and 25 nursery pupils) being located in 2011 on the Radnor site.</p>
<p>I cannot agree more with Councillor Berman&#8217;s final comment on the need for some creative thinking, but would argue that it is better to have it much earlier in the process when proposals are generated, rather than demand it in transitional stages of any proposal.</p>
<p>Finally, I would be interested to hear Councillor Berman&#8217;s views on whether, as a Council, Cardiff has an obligation to keep all interested parents informed through formal channels of the ongoing debates and next steps being considered. Blogs by politicians, rather than via formal council mechanisms, seem to be the way to keep in touch on whether legal challenge is being proposed, or whether further community consultation events of uncertain formality and status are taking place&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rodney Berman</title>
		<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html/comment-page-1#comment-4454</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 07:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3584#comment-4454</guid>
		<description>In specific respons to the comment from &#039;Neil&#039; I understand that council officers did put forward suggestions for how the transition could be managed without having to resort to the English-medium school being on a split-site. Presumably that was ommitted from the judgement because it wasn&#039;t convenient to the argument the First Minister wanted to pursue. Transition arranegments by their very nature are never ideal but with a bit of willingness on all sides, and a bit of creative thinking, they can be managed and that&#039;s what would have happened had the proposal been accepted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In specific respons to the comment from &#8216;Neil&#8217; I understand that council officers did put forward suggestions for how the transition could be managed without having to resort to the English-medium school being on a split-site. Presumably that was ommitted from the judgement because it wasn&#8217;t convenient to the argument the First Minister wanted to pursue. Transition arranegments by their very nature are never ideal but with a bit of willingness on all sides, and a bit of creative thinking, they can be managed and that&#8217;s what would have happened had the proposal been accepted.</p>
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		<title>By: Rodney Berman</title>
		<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html/comment-page-1#comment-4453</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 07:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3584#comment-4453</guid>
		<description>Since 2006, I and the Liberal Democrats have put our names to three different potential solutions for dealing with the surplus places which exist in the English-medium sector in Canton and the lack of adequate accommodation to meet the growing demand in the area for Welsh-medium education. Local Labour representatives have fought against every one of these proposals tooth and nail and have never advocated a single alternative solution that would be acceptable within the confines of their own party&#039;s policies on these issues.

Essentially I believe it is Labour that has created an impossible situation. It suits them electorally to push those other parties running the council into putting their names to proposals that they know will be unpopular with certain elements of the local community - as every proposal for any school closure inevitably is - and then subsequently knock those proposals back in order to win favour with those same elements of the community for riding to their rescue.

Rhodri Morgan has suggested that Carwyn Jones took the decision he did based on clear civil service advice but comparing the judgement sent to us with previous judgements, it is clear that the civil sevant who wrote it up has been incredibly careful to ascribe every single comment and view within it to the First Minister. That&#039;s the way you write something when you are putting forward someone else&#039;s view but don&#039;t necessarily agree with it yourself.

And if anyone still feels I&#039;m not being impartial, they can ask themselves why it is that the Welsh Local Government Assocation and the Association of Directors of Education in Wales have both been quick to strongly condemn the decision. They represent authorities run by all political partties, and those working for them, and they can&#039;t be accused of having any specific local interest.

Also, people may remember Canton Labour councillor Ramesh Patel outrageously describing the Canton schools proposals as &#039;ethnic cleansing&#039;, a comment for which he subsequently had to apologise. Isn&#039;t it a bit rich for him to now accuse others of political mudslinging?

It is Labour that has turned this issue into a party political one by telling the council to do something for policy reasons and then stopping the council from going ahead and doing it for party political reasons. That&#039;s why I am speaking out to stimulate debate in the attempt of cutting through such an intractable situation. Unless we can cut through this and put the children of Canton first, whether in the English-medium sector or the Welsh-medium sector, it&#039;s their education that&#039;s going to suffer and that is surely what matters most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since 2006, I and the Liberal Democrats have put our names to three different potential solutions for dealing with the surplus places which exist in the English-medium sector in Canton and the lack of adequate accommodation to meet the growing demand in the area for Welsh-medium education. Local Labour representatives have fought against every one of these proposals tooth and nail and have never advocated a single alternative solution that would be acceptable within the confines of their own party&#8217;s policies on these issues.</p>
<p>Essentially I believe it is Labour that has created an impossible situation. It suits them electorally to push those other parties running the council into putting their names to proposals that they know will be unpopular with certain elements of the local community &#8211; as every proposal for any school closure inevitably is &#8211; and then subsequently knock those proposals back in order to win favour with those same elements of the community for riding to their rescue.</p>
<p>Rhodri Morgan has suggested that Carwyn Jones took the decision he did based on clear civil service advice but comparing the judgement sent to us with previous judgements, it is clear that the civil sevant who wrote it up has been incredibly careful to ascribe every single comment and view within it to the First Minister. That&#8217;s the way you write something when you are putting forward someone else&#8217;s view but don&#8217;t necessarily agree with it yourself.</p>
<p>And if anyone still feels I&#8217;m not being impartial, they can ask themselves why it is that the Welsh Local Government Assocation and the Association of Directors of Education in Wales have both been quick to strongly condemn the decision. They represent authorities run by all political partties, and those working for them, and they can&#8217;t be accused of having any specific local interest.</p>
<p>Also, people may remember Canton Labour councillor Ramesh Patel outrageously describing the Canton schools proposals as &#8216;ethnic cleansing&#8217;, a comment for which he subsequently had to apologise. Isn&#8217;t it a bit rich for him to now accuse others of political mudslinging?</p>
<p>It is Labour that has turned this issue into a party political one by telling the council to do something for policy reasons and then stopping the council from going ahead and doing it for party political reasons. That&#8217;s why I am speaking out to stimulate debate in the attempt of cutting through such an intractable situation. Unless we can cut through this and put the children of Canton first, whether in the English-medium sector or the Welsh-medium sector, it&#8217;s their education that&#8217;s going to suffer and that is surely what matters most.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html/comment-page-1#comment-4451</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3584#comment-4451</guid>
		<description>I am interested that both Councillors Berman and McEvoy have posted extended reports on related blogs, yet their council&#039;s website on schools reorganisation has yet to update parents on the Assembly decision. The website seems to report approval of council decisions promptly, yet is not as rapid in reporting rejection of its proposals and how it intends to proceed...

It may also be useful to remind readers that the former Lib Dem administration was happily progressing a proposal to close Lansdowne before it formed a coalition with Plaid Cymru and issued the coalition agreement that included a commitment not to close Lansdowne. Both Councillor Berman&#039;s and McEvoy&#039;s statements now suggest that political convenience in forming that coalition at the time was at the forefront of their considerations, rather than whether they genuinely believed in what they stated in that coalition.

The answer to Berman&#039;s question (1) highlights everything that was wrong with the proposal  - it did not resolve an issue, but simply transferred it. Your own officers appear from the WAG letter to have confirmed that 575 pupils might at one time be located on the Radnor Road site.

If a solution is to be found to this issue, then we need more sophisticated thinking and less political posturing. The statement that &#039;schools must close&#039; is itself an indication of the blunt responses our politicians come up with in response to surplus places....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am interested that both Councillors Berman and McEvoy have posted extended reports on related blogs, yet their council&#8217;s website on schools reorganisation has yet to update parents on the Assembly decision. The website seems to report approval of council decisions promptly, yet is not as rapid in reporting rejection of its proposals and how it intends to proceed&#8230;</p>
<p>It may also be useful to remind readers that the former Lib Dem administration was happily progressing a proposal to close Lansdowne before it formed a coalition with Plaid Cymru and issued the coalition agreement that included a commitment not to close Lansdowne. Both Councillor Berman&#8217;s and McEvoy&#8217;s statements now suggest that political convenience in forming that coalition at the time was at the forefront of their considerations, rather than whether they genuinely believed in what they stated in that coalition.</p>
<p>The answer to Berman&#8217;s question (1) highlights everything that was wrong with the proposal  &#8211; it did not resolve an issue, but simply transferred it. Your own officers appear from the WAG letter to have confirmed that 575 pupils might at one time be located on the Radnor Road site.</p>
<p>If a solution is to be found to this issue, then we need more sophisticated thinking and less political posturing. The statement that &#8216;schools must close&#8217; is itself an indication of the blunt responses our politicians come up with in response to surplus places&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Canton councillors criticise political &#8216;mud-slinging&#8217; over schools &#124; Blogs News</title>
		<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html/comment-page-1#comment-4449</link>
		<dc:creator>Canton councillors criticise political &#8216;mud-slinging&#8217; over schools &#124; Blogs News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3584#comment-4449</guid>
		<description>[...] leader Rodney Berman wrote this piece published yesterday, and Plaid Cymru leader Neil McEvoy published this piece on politics blog [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] leader Rodney Berman wrote this piece published yesterday, and Plaid Cymru leader Neil McEvoy published this piece on politics blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html/comment-page-1#comment-4432</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 15:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3584#comment-4432</guid>
		<description>the good of the Labour party is the most important consideration in existence in society today. NOTHING else matters as much and we would all do well to remember this! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the good of the Labour party is the most important consideration in existence in society today. NOTHING else matters as much and we would all do well to remember this! <img src='http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Frank Little</title>
		<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html/comment-page-1#comment-4428</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Little</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 14:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3584#comment-4428</guid>
		<description>It seems to this outside observer that Cardiff&#039;s only  fault in the eyes of WAG is not being run by Labour. ;-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to this outside observer that Cardiff&#8217;s only  fault in the eyes of WAG is not being run by Labour. ;-(</p>
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		<title>By: Rodney Berman</title>
		<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html/comment-page-1#comment-4427</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney Berman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 12:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3584#comment-4427</guid>
		<description>Only in so much as we want to invest as much as we can in good quality school buildings for future generations and as has previously been confirmed by the Wales Audit Office part of the funding needed has to come from selling off surplus school land for development. We have a particular problem in Rumney and Llanrumney in that the current high school buildings are of particularly poor quality. A make-do and mend approach would be selling future generations short. Selling parts of the existing high school sites is the only realistic way to obtain enough funding to provide a new-build school which is what I believe children in that part of the city deserve. The proposals will also lead to an increase in the amount of green open space that is accessible to the public, albeit that not all of it will be where it is now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only in so much as we want to invest as much as we can in good quality school buildings for future generations and as has previously been confirmed by the Wales Audit Office part of the funding needed has to come from selling off surplus school land for development. We have a particular problem in Rumney and Llanrumney in that the current high school buildings are of particularly poor quality. A make-do and mend approach would be selling future generations short. Selling parts of the existing high school sites is the only realistic way to obtain enough funding to provide a new-build school which is what I believe children in that part of the city deserve. The proposals will also lead to an increase in the amount of green open space that is accessible to the public, albeit that not all of it will be where it is now.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Greagsby</title>
		<link>http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/06/our-kids-deserve-better-than-labour-ministers-using-schools-reorganisation-as-a-political-football.html/comment-page-1#comment-4424</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Greagsby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 08:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3584#comment-4424</guid>
		<description>It seems to outside observers that the reorganisation is based on property values and development opportunities rather than the best for our children!  
The decision to build on Rumney Recreation ground IS going ahead - a prime example of Lib Dem Rodney Berman and Plaid Neil McEvoy mismanagement of the city of Cardiff and their continuing destruction and concreting over of our green spaces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to outside observers that the reorganisation is based on property values and development opportunities rather than the best for our children!<br />
The decision to build on Rumney Recreation ground IS going ahead &#8211; a prime example of Lib Dem Rodney Berman and Plaid Neil McEvoy mismanagement of the city of Cardiff and their continuing destruction and concreting over of our green spaces.</p>
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