Comments for Freedom Central http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:34:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 Comment on The nationalists and the BBC by Alwyn ap Huw http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/the-nationalists-and-the-bbc.html/comment-page-1#comment-3516 Alwyn ap Huw Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:34:24 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3034#comment-3516 To say that Plaid and the SNP are irrelevant in the UK election is factually incorrect - Plaid will be relevant in my constituency and the programmes will be broadcast in my constituency. The logic extension of your argument isn't just that the nationalist parties are irrelevant but that the constituencies in which they are standing are also irrelevant. To say that Plaid and the SNP are irrelevant in the UK election is factually incorrect – Plaid will be relevant in my constituency and the programmes will be broadcast in my constituency. The logic extension of your argument isn’t just that the nationalist parties are irrelevant but that the constituencies in which they are standing are also irrelevant.

]]> Comment on The nationalists and the BBC by Peter Black http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/the-nationalists-and-the-bbc.html/comment-page-1#comment-3515 Peter Black Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:30:39 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3034#comment-3515 Whether I want it to become a reality or not, it is still not the basis on which these decisions are made and that is my point. In the world that we really live in the dec ision to exclude Plaid and the SNP from these debates is the right one because they are not fielding candidates across the UK in a UK election and because they have no chance of producing the next Prime Minister. The idea that Plaid will get 6 or 7 MPs and the SNP go into double figures is a fantasy and will not happen under FPTP which, just in case you have not noticed is the basis on which the General Election will be fought. As for the Liberal Democrats I dont just believe that they will get more than 60 seats I think it is a near-certainty. As for Wales, the latest polls may show us less than 18 per cent but actually they are roughly at the same level as they were in 2005 when we went up to 18% during the course of the election. Plaid and the SNP are irrelevant in this UK election and that is why they are not in these debates. Whether I want it to become a reality or not, it is still not the basis on which these decisions are made and that is my point. In the world that we really live in the dec ision to exclude Plaid and the SNP from these debates is the right one because they are not fielding candidates across the UK in a UK election and because they have no chance of producing the next Prime Minister.

The idea that Plaid will get 6 or 7 MPs and the SNP go into double figures is a fantasy and will not happen under FPTP which, just in case you have not noticed is the basis on which the General Election will be fought.

As for the Liberal Democrats I dont just believe that they will get more than 60 seats I think it is a near-certainty. As for Wales, the latest polls may show us less than 18 per cent but actually they are roughly at the same level as they were in 2005 when we went up to 18% during the course of the election.

Plaid and the SNP are irrelevant in this UK election and that is why they are not in these debates.

]]> Comment on The nationalists and the BBC by David http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/the-nationalists-and-the-bbc.html/comment-page-1#comment-3513 David Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:49:36 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3034#comment-3513 It is speculation, but it is speculation that you as a Liberal Democrat who I imagine believes in PR would love to become a reality. You can call it a mythical bloc of Celtic MP's but if Plaid go to 6 or 7 seats at this election Peter and the SNP go into double figures, it won't be so mythical then. I note that you mock the idea of what I have mentioned, even though it is something that if the Lib Dems have their way, could certainly become an easy reality, it already is becoming a reality even under FPTP. Yet you still write as though the Lib Dems have an actual chance of even getting beyond your current 60 odd MP's at this election?! The idea of Nick Clegg becoming PM is far more speculative fantasy than anything that I have mentioned. Polls in Wales consistently are showing you dropping around 6% from your 2005 high of 18% so... My point I think stands. If its good enough for Nick then its good enough for Ieuan and Alex too! It is speculation, but it is speculation that you as a Liberal Democrat who I imagine believes in PR would love to become a reality. You can call it a mythical bloc of Celtic MP’s but if Plaid go to 6 or 7 seats at this election Peter and the SNP go into double figures, it won’t be so mythical then.

I note that you mock the idea of what I have mentioned, even though it is something that if the Lib Dems have their way, could certainly become an easy reality, it already is becoming a reality even under FPTP. Yet you still write as though the Lib Dems have an actual chance of even getting beyond your current 60 odd MP’s at this election?! The idea of Nick Clegg becoming PM is far more speculative fantasy than anything that I have mentioned. Polls in Wales consistently are showing you dropping around 6% from your 2005 high of 18% so… My point I think stands. If its good enough for Nick then its good enough for Ieuan and Alex too!

]]> Comment on The nationalists and the BBC by Peter Black http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/the-nationalists-and-the-bbc.html/comment-page-1#comment-3506 Peter Black Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:01:35 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3034#comment-3506 Except that all of that is pure speculation on your part and does not refect the actual situation on which the decision was taken. Plaid and the SNP maybe in government but they are not in government at a UK level and nor are they likely to be despite the ridiculous hype of a mythical celtic bloc of MPs. This is a UK election and at this level Plaid and the SNP are irrelevant. I am perfectly happy with separate debates for Wales and Scotland as in the devolved context the UK issues are different and I am also happy for Plaid and the SNP to participate in them but they should be additional to the main Prime Ministerial debates. As for the Lib Dems being a total irrelevance in Wales and Scotland you need to check again. We have the second largest block of MPs in both countries. Except that all of that is pure speculation on your part and does not refect the actual situation on which the decision was taken. Plaid and the SNP maybe in government but they are not in government at a UK level and nor are they likely to be despite the ridiculous hype of a mythical celtic bloc of MPs. This is a UK election and at this level Plaid and the SNP are irrelevant. I am perfectly happy with separate debates for Wales and Scotland as in the devolved context the UK issues are different and I am also happy for Plaid and the SNP to participate in them but they should be additional to the main Prime Ministerial debates. As for the Lib Dems being a total irrelevance in Wales and Scotland you need to check again. We have the second largest block of MPs in both countries.

]]> Comment on The nationalists and the BBC by David http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/the-nationalists-and-the-bbc.html/comment-page-1#comment-3505 David Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:10:02 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3034#comment-3505 This is about democracy, Peter, Simple as that. What happens if there is STV at some point in the future which you, I imagine, would love? We could have a situation where smaller parties make up the majority of votes and indeed seats in parliament. Are you still going to toe this line then? Since you are supposedly in favour of open accountable federalism, why are you, for pure electoral fantasy, sticking to an outdated and deeply unfair line? The votes of the big two are already falling election after election and it is not just the Lib Dems sweeping up this alternative vote. There could be a situation where soon the Lib Dems are the third largest party, but there could well be a nationalist/regionalist bloc from Wales, Scotland and NI that easily outnumbers you. If that happens would it be fair to not invite Nick Clegg or your next party leader? You cannot reasonably argue that parties of government from two countries should be excluded, when your party, a total irrelevance in Wales and Scotland (Sorry to be so frank, but its true) gets this mass exposure. Surely the only fair way to do this would be to have seperate debates for Wales and Scotland on ITV and the BBC and then have an all UK debate on SKY. I have to say that once again I feel you are playing into your own stereotype, that your party is all things to all people, that switches for electoral gain and will sell its soul for a few more seats here and there. This is about democracy, Peter, Simple as that. What happens if there is STV at some point in the future which you, I imagine, would love? We could have a situation where smaller parties make up the majority of votes and indeed seats in parliament. Are you still going to toe this line then? Since you are supposedly in favour of open accountable federalism, why are you, for pure electoral fantasy, sticking to an outdated and deeply unfair line?

The votes of the big two are already falling election after election and it is not just the Lib Dems sweeping up this alternative vote. There could be a situation where soon the Lib Dems are the third largest party, but there could well be a nationalist/regionalist bloc from Wales, Scotland and NI that easily outnumbers you. If that happens would it be fair to not invite Nick Clegg or your next party leader?

You cannot reasonably argue that parties of government from two countries should be excluded, when your party, a total irrelevance in Wales and Scotland (Sorry to be so frank, but its true) gets this mass exposure. Surely the only fair way to do this would be to have seperate debates for Wales and Scotland on ITV and the BBC and then have an all UK debate on SKY.

I have to say that once again I feel you are playing into your own stereotype, that your party is all things to all people, that switches for electoral gain and will sell its soul for a few more seats here and there.

]]> Comment on Don't write off council collaboration because of one failed project by <fb:name linked="false" useyou="false" uid="688416274">Frank H Little</fb:name> http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/dont-write-off-council-collaboration-because-of-one-failed-project.html/comment-page-1#comment-3502 Frank H Little Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:59:27 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3052#comment-3502 Collaboration makes more sense than the drive to create super-councils, a less flexible solution and one which would be costly to implement (v. the Hart centralisation of the Welsh NHS). Collaboration makes more sense than the drive to create super-councils, a less flexible solution and one which would be costly to implement (v. the Hart centralisation of the Welsh NHS).

]]> Comment on The nationalists and the BBC by Peter Black http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/the-nationalists-and-the-bbc.html/comment-page-1#comment-3493 Peter Black Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:48:06 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3034#comment-3493 Really, it seems to me that they want to have their cake and eat it Really, it seems to me that they want to have their cake and eat it

]]> Comment on The nationalists and the BBC by Alwyn ap Huw http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/the-nationalists-and-the-bbc.html/comment-page-1#comment-3492 Alwyn ap Huw Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:43:38 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3034#comment-3492 "Plaid and the SNP need to make up their mind. Are they Welsh and Scottish parties or UK parties? They cannot have it both ways and whereas they would absolutely be entitled to take part in debates in an election affecting only their respective countries, in a UK election they are irrelevant". What a stupid response Peter. Plaid and the SNP (and Mebyon Kernow) accept that their respective countries are currently part of the UK. They want to change that, and the change that they seek IS relevant to the whole of the UK. “Plaid and the SNP need to make up their mind. Are they Welsh and Scottish parties or UK parties? They cannot have it both ways and whereas they would absolutely be entitled to take part in debates in an election affecting only their respective countries, in a UK election they are irrelevant”.

What a stupid response Peter. Plaid and the SNP (and Mebyon Kernow) accept that their respective countries are currently part of the UK. They want to change that, and the change that they seek IS relevant to the whole of the UK.

]]> Comment on The nationalists and the BBC by Peter Black http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/the-nationalists-and-the-bbc.html/comment-page-1#comment-3488 Peter Black Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:59:30 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3034#comment-3488 Plaid and the SNP need to make up their mind. Are they Welsh and Scottish parties or UK parties? They cannot have it both ways and whereas they would absolutely be entitled to take part in debates in an election affecting only their respective countries, in a UK election they are irrelevant. Plaid and the SNP need to make up their mind. Are they Welsh and Scottish parties or UK parties? They cannot have it both ways and whereas they would absolutely be entitled to take part in debates in an election affecting only their respective countries, in a UK election they are irrelevant.

]]> Comment on The nationalists and the BBC by Al http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/2010/03/the-nationalists-and-the-bbc.html/comment-page-1#comment-3487 Al Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:49:31 +0000 http://www.freedomcentral.org.uk/?p=3034#comment-3487 "So the Nationalists want to take over the BBC so that they can dictate what they broadcast. " No, they just want to be included. If anyone is "dictating what is broadcast", it is Labour, Tory and Libdems (in collusion with the Beeb and Sky). THAT is undemocratic. How would you feel if the debates were only Labour/Tory, and the Libdems were refused entry? Would you sit back and take it, or say "we want our say too?". “So the Nationalists want to take over the BBC so that they can dictate what they broadcast. ”

No, they just want to be included. If anyone is “dictating what is broadcast”, it is Labour, Tory and Libdems (in collusion with the Beeb and Sky). THAT is undemocratic.

How would you feel if the debates were only Labour/Tory, and the Libdems were refused entry? Would you sit back and take it, or say “we want our say too?”.

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